Margrét Óskarsdóttir: [0:00:13] My name is Margrét Óskarsdóttir, and my nickname is Marta. I come from Iceland, and this is my third time at Haystack. I came in 2016 and was for two sessions, and also in 2018 and was for one session. Now I’m for one session as well at the Fab Lab.

Galen Koch: [0:00:34] How did you end up at the Haystack Fab Lab?

MO: [0:00:37] Well, I did the Fab Academy in 2015, and Neil [Gershenfeld] was looking at – I think it was more Sigga’s [Sigríður Helga Hauksdóttir] project, and he was like, “Oh, you need to go to Haystack,” because we were working as artists. “You would love it. Haystack.” So I think somehow he arranged that we were invited. Well, Sigga was invited in 2016, and I was like, “I want to go.” And she’s like, “Well, ask.” So, I sent an email and said, “Can I come too? I also finished the [Fab Academy].” And they were like, “Yeah.” And so they invited both of us. They needed people, so we actually ended up staying for two sessions, which was fun.

GK: [0:01:17] And what’s your history? What got you involved with Neil, to begin with?

MO: [0:01:22] That was the Fab Academy. Yeah, he works at MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology]. He runs that program. He’s probably the person who sort of started the Fab Lab here, and he comes here every year with Fab Lab gurus, and they sort of work the Fab Lab and make sure it’s – bring some new stuff in, new machines. I think he’s super interested in – he’s very technical and super clever, but he feels that artists really push the machines, whereas if you’re an engineer or a programmer or whatever, you sort of work with the machine. But an artist will see a machine as like, “Oh, can I use it to do this, this, and this?” Then, you have to figure out – we see more possibilities, maybe as an artist versus a technical person. So, I think that’s why he loves connecting Fab Lab to the arts and that artists can see it as a tool, too. They can use it, but they will also push the engineers to make better machines, basically.

GK: [0:02:23] Because you’re asking for something that might be outside of the realm of what they’re thinking of.

MO: [0:02:29] Yeah. I don’t think they created the ShopBot, for instance, to mill out a mold in plaster. So, you know what I mean? So, artists will see something like, “Oh, I could use it for that. I could do this.” Something it was maybe not meant [to do].

GK: [0:02:45] You attended Fab Academy.

MO: [0:02:50]

GK: [0:02:50 Is that the right way to say that? What inspired you to do that?

MO: [0:02:55] Well, I’m a teacher as well as an artist, and we were asked to teach a course at Fab Lab or bring our students there, and we were like, “Totally, yeah, but we don’t know what we’re doing. Can we take a course?” And this was the only thing available at the time in Iceland, and it was way more intense than I thought I was going into. I mean, I had no experience in programming, electronics, or soldering. I was all about just making. I had to really sort of become very technical there for twenty weeks, or at least some of the ten weeks while I was learning all this. I really liked the experience. I don’t think I can program, but I can understand it, and if somebody is with me, I could sort of – you know what I mean? There was nothing available, like, can I get a crash course in how to work the machines? If that would have been available, I probably would have done that because that’s really what I was after just to know how to use it. But instead, I got this, and Fab Academy brought us here, and I’m very glad that it did. I feel like being here and working with artists who are working on their projects is an inspiration for me as an artist. Then, what we are doing – we help people during the day, and in the evenings and weekends, we are trying to work on our stuff. So we get to use the machines as well. There’s always something new that we bring back that’s just, and this is paradise. Just being here.

GK: [0:04:29] It is paradise. Are you squinting? Do you feel like you’re squinting? Are you having trouble?

MO: [0:04:36] No, I am squinting. There’s a little sun coming here.

GK: [0:04:38] Okay, I can see that. Yeah. So, I wonder if we want to push –

MO: [0:04:44] I think if I was –

GK: [0:04:45] Yeah, that’s better. Right?

MO: [0:04:47] I think there’s just a lot of sunlight. I probably will squint, so just don’t worry about it. I squint a lot. Don’t worry about it.

GK: [0:04:56] Yeah. You’ve got a little squint, but it’s just a bright day. What are you going to do? It’s a beautiful day.

MO: [0:04:59] It’s a beautiful day; that’s what happens.

GK: [0:05:05] So, being a resident at the Haystack Fab Lab, what was that experience like? You said you wanted more technical experience on the machines. It seems like that’s part of what you’re doing when you’re here.

MO: [0:05:20] Yeah. I mean, I think if I wouldn’t have gone through the Fab Academy and gotten such an intense training, the Fab Lab – I mean, my skills help others basically, knowing things that I know, having used the machines quite a bit, having been in on the design end of it myself, having to have to push myself into directions, that was out of my comfort zone, really. Also, realizing that what the Fab Academy taught me is if you don’t know it, you know what? You can just learn it. It’s not that hard. There are videos on YouTube about everything. So, it gave me sort of like – oh, there’s a plumbing problem at home. I’m sure there’s a video. You know what I mean? If I can program through YouTube and through some sort of whatever, then I can do anything. So it was very empowering to go through these twenty weeks of intense training, and a lot of it was way out of my comfort zone.

GK: [0:06:28] What sort of craft are you involved in?

MO: [0:06:31] Well, I studied acting and film, so I come into this with very little training in any sort of drawing or whatever, but I have done quite a bit of 2D drawing before, and now I do 2D drawing and 3D drawing, and sort of self-taught. Sigga worked as a graphic designer, so she taught me a lot, and we teach our students 2D drawing in Illustrator and Inkscape. So, the more you teach, the better you become. I feel like I can do anything because if I don’t know how to do it, I just Google it.

GK: [0:07:05] I was going to say I think for, even for artists of any kind who aren’t in the technical world, something like the Fab Lab can feel intimidating. It sounds like you might be able to bridge that with some of the people in the studios. Can you describe the relationship that you have when you’re a resident here with folks who are coming into the lab?

MO: [0:07:33] There’s all sorts of people that come here. There are people who have never used the machine, and they’re terrified of it. That’s our student back home, so we know how to break you in gently, basically. We help you, we hold you, we show you a simple way to do this. And then there are people who have worked with these machines before, and they want to push the limits. We sort of get the beginner [to] somebody who is very used to using the machines, and sometimes the people who are here are teaching us what to do. It’s really much of a sharing community – Fab Lab. If you know something and you want – if I know something and you want to learn it, it’s almost like I should be very open to share with you what I know. And that’s the spirit that we learned at the Fab Academy: if you’re sitting next to somebody who doesn’t know what they’re doing, you help them even though you don’t know them or not. It’s just – let it spread.

GK: [0:08:26] So, sometimes it almost sounds like it’s a collaboration.

MO: [0:08:29] Yeah, it often is. Yeah, of course, because you come in, you have an idea, you don’t know how to execute it. You sit with me, and I say, “Well, you could do it like this. You can do it like that. I can lead you through here.” And then I say, “What sort of software do you normally use?” And they say, “That.” “Well, you can do it in that. I can show you how.” Sometimes, you just have to lead the way for people; sometimes, you have to hold and hold their hand and sit with them through the process. So, it’s a give and take. But really, I think our strength, me and Sigga’s, in the Fab Lab, is that we are very good at introducing Fab Lab to people who have never used it, who are kind of afraid, and then we can – and also, if 2D drawing and 3D drawing, if you are really good at that, we can also assist you in that so I think that’s also programming, and that part is not my strength, at least.

GK: [0:09:35] Can I get you some water?

MO: [0:09:37] Yeah, sorry.

GK: [0:09:37] I’ll get some water.

MO: [0:09:39] Coughing like crazy

GK: [0:09:40] No worries … So can you just describe the kind of nuts and bolts when you get to Haystack for the Fab Lab, to be a Fab lab resident, and how the session progresses?

MO: [0:10:49] Are you talking just when we arrive, or what do you need to do in order to become a Fab Lab resident?

GK: [0:10:56] Not that yet. But you introduce the concept of the Fab Lab to folks who are here, and then they come in, consult with you, and you’re working on – just going through some of the steps of that process.

MO: [0:11:10] Okay. We arrive on Saturday, and we meet the faculty. On Sunday, there’s a meeting where the faculty comes here, and we show them the Fab Lab and show them projects and what is possible, and we just have a good talk or whatever. And then on Mondays at four, I think, everybody’s welcome for an orientation of the Fab Lab, and James [Rutter] tells people how it runs and what is to be expected and how the setup is, that you need to sign up. If you need consulting, you need to make an appointment and stuff like that, and how the fee is and everything like that. So, Monday is fairly easy. Basically, what we did Sunday and Monday –when we got here, we would just check – we have a Fab Lab at home. We have machines in our schools – not the same machines. So, you got to get familiar with those machines, like the settings. How do you take it from the computer to the machine? Every lab has a different method, so you get familiarized with that. We had some appointments on Tuesdays, and then, slowly but surely, you get busier and busier. I believe yesterday, Monday, was our busiest day. Today has been fairly slow. A lot of people are now – in the beginning, maybe Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday – you get people who knew that there was a Fab Lab, and they knew what they wanted from here. So, they came to Haystack with an idea that they knew there was a Fab Lab, and they intended to use it. Some people got the idea on Monday and say, “Oh, I want to do it. I want to do it fast because it gets busier and busier.” It’s been an even – I somehow remember it being busier maybe last season, but also what was busy then, we just had got the embroidery machine; we were trying to figure it out. It just got in, and nobody knew how to work it. We were trying to figure out how to work it. So, sometimes you are just very busy. We don’t go home – we don’t go to bed until eleven or twelve at night because we’re trying to figure things out, trying to do our own things. There’s a new scanner here that we like, and we’re trying to figure out how – can we scan this in? So, yeah, we are having fun playing around with the equipment. If there’s not somebody coming in, then we are busy trying to figure things out, basically.

GK: [0:13:48] That’s great. Sounds like there’s a lot of energy.

MO: [0:13:50] Yeah, yeah. There’s so much creative energy here. You know what I mean? It’s not just us. It’s everybody. Everybody comes here, and they’re going to do so much. You’re kind of like – now, what is it? Is it Monday? No, it’s Tuesday. And you’re just like, “Wait a minute, it’s just today and tomorrow, and we haven’t done this, this, and this?” We feel this way, and I’m sure everybody else feels this way. So, I have a feeling maybe it would be a little bit quiet, but then there’s always somebody who’s done, and then it’s like, “Oh, now I have time to go to the Fab Lab.” So, who knows how it’s going to happen?

GK: [0:14:22] You were saying before – you thought my question was how you become a Fab Lab resident, which is on my list. Can you tell me a little bit about that? So, you did the Fab Academy, but then there’s obviously somehow you got connected to come actually as a resident.

MO: [0:14:43] I think you have to have gone through the Fab Academy to become a resident here, or some other strange way, but I think that’s really the requirement that you have finished because that means basically when you finish the Fab Academy, that means you can run a lab. You have what you need in order to run a lab. You don’t know everything, but you are also – you are then in connection with other people. I know somebody who’s really good at programming who lives in Holland, and if I was running into a problem, I could contact him. Then we have a net of people that can – James just did the Fab Academy, so he’s closer to that network than we are, and it’s necessary. Why you get to come here? I think it’s an invitation only. I really do think so. I don’t know anybody. I think you can apply. I think you can say, “I went through the Fab Academy. I work in this Fab Lab. I’m doing this project.” And I think if you show – I think you have to be interested in art in order – I think you have to be accessible to the people. The people that run the lab need to be open to that there are people here who have never used it and don’t know anything, so you have to be able to not be too technical but also be welcoming and be able to help them through that first initial – I think it’s important.

GK: [0:16:17] Is the Haystack Fab Lab different than other Fab Labs that you’ve been to or seen?

MO: [0:16:22] It has pretty much the same equipment. If not some of it – they have some equipment that I haven’t – we don’t have a resin printer at home. So, in that sense, it’s very well set up right now after they redid the whole thing and different in the sense that everybody that is using it is basically working on something artistic or creative versus making a sign or making just a T-[shirt]. You know what I mean? T-shirt or something? In most Fab Labs, you get also kids coming just to 3D print some figurines. Here, I feel like it’s more directed at – I see it more as a tool towards something else, maybe. You’re doing it because you have a bigger picture. For instance, we use the CNC router to work on our work. But it’s not just – we are not CNC routering a file from the internet. It has a meaning. It’s just one tool for us to use to get what we want from what we are trying to achieve, basically.

GK: [0:17:36] It’s almost a little bit more – it seems like there are even extra steps in there you might not always do in another Fab Lab, like the initial drawing, and then somehow to transfer that.

MO: [0:17:50] Oh, you do. If you work in another Fab Lab, there are people who come in and don’t know anything, and you have to give consultation. I think every Fab Lab has that. Fab Lab Reykjavik has an open house [that] anybody’s welcome to, and if you know what you’re doing, you can just go ahead and use the machines. If you don’t, you can get assistance. So, yeah, the concept of Fab Lab is share, be open, let’s invite everybody, you shouldn’t be afraid of this, see if you can use it, but basically don’t produce stuff in the Fab Lab. It’s more figuring things out, finding a tool. I know they’re pretty upset, some people in Reykjavik – this guy designed a holster for the phone and put a little design on it, and he comes in and makes twenty at a time. This is just business. This is no longer – so, Fab Lab is not thought of as – it’s more as a prototype. You use it for a prototype or a unique thing, and if it works, if you’re going to sell a hundred of them, then go and have it produced. Don’t try to produce it in the Fab Lab, basically.

GK: [0:18:58] Has your time in the Fab Lab changed or shifted between the seasons that you’ve been at Haystack?

MO: [0:19:07] Yeah, of course. You come before for the third time, and you know what’s going to happen. Way more relaxed. When we did two sessions in a row, that was a bit too much. Also, it was our first time. You’re nervous – “I’m not going to be able to help people.” And you felt like when you first got here, you had to solve everything, whereas now I’m just like, “This is too time-consuming. You’re not going to be able to do it with the skills that you have and the time that you have now. If this is something you really want to pursue, then you need to put work into it.” So, I can gently say, “Great idea. I don’t think it’s going to work now. It’s too time-consuming.” If you’re going to work in the software that takes you about three days to get good at, then you don’t want to be doing it here.” Stuff like that. So, some people ask their neighbor who is really good at it to do it for them, and then they can produce it. But we are not doing files for people. We are not drawing from scratch. You cannot come to us and say, “Oh, I want this done,” and we do it. We are just there to help you to do it yourself, basically.

GK: [0:20:19] Well, in that vein, can you talk about some of the most successful examples of how the Fab Lab has integrated? Do you have any examples of projects or work that you remember that were really successful applications and integrations of the Fab Lab at Haystack?

MO: [0:20:35] Yeah, you will see them. Well, they’re in the kiln. But I remember two that, for me, was something new. Other people are doing great stuff, but I’ve seen that before. I mean, of course, they are making the stamps and also the stuff in graphics. But this one lady in ceramics had a drawing that she had done that represented – well, you should probably interview her because she will explain better where it came from. So, she took the exact drawing and made circles and made a ceramic piece, where she used the plywood circles to build the piece, and it’s beautiful. And I’d never seen – it’s a simple way of doing it, but that way, she would get the exact size, and she would be able to shape it. She had them all numbered up, and it’s really cool. I really enjoyed the CNC routering of the mold. There’s other stuff, but that stands out a little bit; that blew me away this season.

GK: [0:21:45] I don’t know where those people are having a party, but it sounds like they’re having a party.

MO: [0:21:48] There’s always a party. I think it’s in the wood[shop].

GK: [0:21:52] So they were doing CNC? The woodshop is doing CNC?

MO: [0:21:55] No, they were mainly using the laser. They could have. It often also depends on the teachers, and I know one of the teachers there; he uses the CNC router himself, but it’s a steep learning curve to have a whole class go through, and you don’t want it to have it as a requirement for a class that you have to use it. So, they do it by hand, a lot of it, that they could be doing it in the CNC router. I understand why.

GK: [0:22:22] What are some of the challenges that come up with the integration? You’ve spoken to this, honestly, about [if] someone comes in with a project that’s just too lofty or the technical capacity within the space.

MO: [0:22:43] Or within the time of what we have. I think it was good. James really sort of emphasized the fact that you think it’s going to take fifteen minutes – no, it’s not. I think it’s the expectation – people think because it’s machines, it’s going to be so fast. Often, you’re not speeding the process. Often, it takes longer, especially if you don’t know what you’re doing and you have to learn it in order to do it. Sometimes, doing things by hand could be faster. Sometimes, you want to direct people and say, “I can freely print this for you, but it takes you maybe fifteen minutes to make it out of clay. So, why do you want to –?” But sometimes people still want to go the route because they want to go through the process of making – maybe the next project will be where it makes more sense to make a 3D print, basically.

GK: [0:23:41] When you’re thinking of projects – why would you want to use this equipment? What would be the best application for it that you can think of? Maybe not the best, but an application that would make more sense instead of doing it by hand?

MO: [0:24:00] Well, I remember there was a paper making in 2018, and then they were laser cutting it into a beautiful – beautiful paper laser cut with a beautiful pattern. That’s just a piece in itself. You would not sit and cut with scissors this beautiful – you get such precision. So, anything that you need big precision. Also, how can you use the lab to help your idea become alive? Of course, you have to have an idea of where you’re headed, and then you can think about it. Is there anything in the lab that will help me make it easier to make, make it more –? If you want a specific shape in clay, it has to be this angle, this whatever. You can do somewhat in hand, but then you have to be measuring. But if you 3D print something like this, you know the dimension. Any sort of [thing] that you need things to be very precise and accurate, the Fab Lab is very good. I mean, we’re talking about millimeters or inches that you guys talk about. But I talk millimeters.

GK: [0:25:11] [laughter] I don’t know what we talk. It’s not as precise.

MO: [0:25:15] No. Inches.

GK: [0:25:17] Inches.

MO: [0:25:17] Quarter-inch, eighth-inch.

GK: [0:25:19] Has it changed the way that you make or think about making work to be involved in the Fab Lab?

MO: [0:25:26] Yeah, definitely. We learn new techniques every time we come here. Last time, we learned this technique, how we can – Japanese wood technique, how you can make – you put fire on the wood, and then you brush it off, and you put oil on it, and then you have these beautiful black pieces. So, we were totally in awe of that. This season, the woodshop is teaching me how to make a guitar, and they’re teaching me about ebonizing with some solution that I can also use blackened wood with – just very cheap material. Every time somebody comes in and starts talking about the ideas, of course, it gives me ideas. You know what I mean? It’s a give-and-take. It’s totally a give-and-take. Everything is. I mean, I teach them. I get from them as well. It’s just a nice way of living.