Galen Koch: [0:00:00] We’re going to talk about Haystack, obviously, and your experience with Haystack. But just to get started, I’d love if you could introduce yourself, your name, where you live, what your occupation was or is – that kind of thing.

 

Eleanor Rosenfeld: [0:00:18] All right. Well, my name is Eleanor Talpalar Rosenfeld, and I was married to Sam Rosenfeld for many, many, many years. Unfortunately, he’s gone now. I was introduced to Haystack in the early ’70s by a friend who had gone there and told me about it. I really wanted to get there as quickly as I could, but I had three children, and I had to wait until they were a little bit independent before I could leave. So, I think that my first session at Haystack was in the early ’70s, as I recall, and Fran Merritt was the director at that time. It opened the door for both of us to appreciate the craft art that was being developed at that time in America. I went there for many, many summers. My husband went one or two. That was it. But it became a very important part of our life. We began appreciating and collecting American craft art at that point in time, very slowly, as we could afford it, and more so as the movement grew larger and we were more able to travel a little and see what was happening around the country. So, it’s been a passion for both of us. We bought a lot in certain areas. My husband loved the woodworking, and I loved the textile and the ceramic. So, between the two of us, we really covered a large area of interests.

 

GK: [0:02:33] Can you tell me –? So you said a friend. Was it a friend who introduced you to Haystack? How did you hear about it? Who was that?

 

ER: [0:02:43] Bernard Glassman, in the Washington area, was a friend of ours. He had gone there for a couple of years. When we would be together, he would talk to me about it. It sounded so delightful. I just was eager to get myself there. But it took a few years until the children grew up. The first year I went, I took a weaving course with Warren Seelig, and that was quite an experience, to say the least. I learned everything I could at that point about weaving. I had no knowledge of what it was prior to my going there. I found it exciting but also very taxing. So, I moved into other areas of textile art as well as the clay and just really everything; anything that appealed to us was of interest, and we pursued it. So, I have an apartment stuffed with things at this point.

 

GK: [0:03:58] Oh. That’s amazing. That first class with Warren Seelig, did you say that was in the ’70s?

 

ER: [0:04:08] Yes. As much as I can recall, it must have been ’74 around that time. Maybe ’75. I’m not exactly sure.

 

GK: [0:04:20] Can you tell me just some of the first impressions you had when you went to Haystack? How you felt or what it was like to see it or be there for the first time?

 

ER: [0:04:33] Well, at that point, I flew to Bangor, Maine, and it was a matter of getting from Bangor to Haystack. Haystack made arrangements for that. They picked up a group of people flying in and drove us there. When we drove to Haystack, we drove, and we drove, and we drove, and I thought we were going to the end of the world. When we got there, I knew we were at the end of the world. It was absolutely breathtaking to see the views from Haystack’s position. I never tired of looking at that. It was really exceptional. You want to hear some funny stories?

 

GK: [0:05:25] Yes, definitely. [laughter]

 

ER: [0:05:29] When I got the brochure from Haystack – I called and got the brochure, and it came. The thing I was interested in was the weaving with Warren Seelig. As you know, each teacher writes up what the class is supposed to be about. And I read it, and I read it, and I read it maybe a hundred times, and I could not for the life of me figure out what he was saying. So, I called the school, and Ethel Clifford was the assistant to the director, assistant to Fran Merrit, and had been there for many, many years. I explained to her that I wanted to take this class, but I just couldn’t understand what the artist was writing about. She said to me, “Well, did you read the brochure?”  I said, “Yes, I did.”  She says, “Well, hold on a minute. Let me get it.” So she got it, and she read it, and she said to me, “I see where you’re coming from. I don’t know what he’s saying either.”

 

GK: [0:06:39] He was an eccentric guy.

 

ER: [0:06:42] Yeah. So, that was my first introduction to Haystack.

 

GK: [0:06:49] That’s great. When you were in the session, did it change? Was it different than sessions are now? Did it feel different?

 

ER: [0:07:03] No, it’s pretty much the same. The teacher spoke, and the classes were made up – I was a beginner, a rank beginner. I didn’t even know how to put the warp on the loom. They were very experienced students also that really were expert weavers. So, I think it was the gamut. They tried, I think, to put the gamut from the earliest to the most experienced in each class. It was good because the early ones needed the help not only of the teacher but of the other students. So, it worked well. I thought it worked very well. I don’t know if they’re still doing it. I haven’t been there for many years, so I’m not sure what goes on. But I thought that was a good way to present craft art.

 

GK: [0:08:05] So you took that first session, and then it sounds like you continued to take sessions after that.

 

ER: [0:08:13] That’s right. Many.

 

GK: [0:08:15] Do you know how many?

 

ER: [0:08:17] Oh, at least twenty. Many, many. All in textile. Different textile art – dyeing, batiking, silk screen design, all sorts of textile art. It was good. But even though you’re in one specific medium, you are exposed to so many others while you’re there because the studios are open. The meal breaks are – everybody sits wherever they want. There’s discussions all the time about different forms of art. So, by osmosis, you pick up a lot, more than just what you thought you came there to study. You came to appreciate a lot of the other things, and you become knowledgeable about it.

 

GK: [0:09:24] Did you have a practice outside of Haystack, or was it concentrated at Haystack?

 

ER: [0:09:33] Mostly there. The exposure here in Washington was not as easy to come by. But I did get involved with the Renwick Alliance. In fact, my husband and I were part of the ten people who started the Renwick Alliance because of Haystack, really.

 

GK: [0:09:57] Wow. What year was that? Do you know?

 

ER: [0:10:02] Fifty-some years from today. So, it’s a long time. Whenever the Renwick Alliance began, we were there. We were of the group that began it with Lloyd Herman, who was the director of the Renwick at the time.

 

GK: [0:10:25] That’s amazing. Is there a phone conversation going on behind you?

 

ER: [0:10:31] The phone rang.

 

GK: [0:10:33] Is Laverne on the phone?

 

ER: [0:10:35] Yes.

 

GK: [0:10:36] We might want to just wait for a moment.

 

ER: [0:10:39] I don’t hear her, so you tell me when you hear her.

 

GK: [0:10:44] I’m not sure if I’ll know, but I heard it for a second there.

 

ER: [0:10:51] I think she’s finished.

 

GK: [0:10:53] Okay. So, when you were taking those classes, Eleanor, was your husband also taking workshops at Haystack?

 

ER: [0:11:03] Intermittently. Not consistently, no.

 

GK: [0:11:08] So you were more involved in the workshop aspect?

 

ER: [0:11:12] Definitely.

 

GK: [0:11:14] And what was your relationship to Deer Isle? What was your connection to the island?

 

ER: [0:11:24] Just Haystack at that point.

 

GK:  Did that change? Yes. We fell in love with the whole island, the people, everything. I mean, it’s such a unique place. It’s a piece of heaven on earth. And we ultimately had a home there, which I sadly had to sell. I can’t rave enough about the whole environment. I think it’s just a gem. As I said, a piece of heaven on earth.

 

GK: [0:12:00] When did you buy a home there?

 

ER: [0:12:07] Well, we built a home.

 

GK: [0:12:09] When was that?

 

ER: [0:12:10] Yeah. I don’t remember. I think it was a very early ’80s, maybe ’82. But there would be a record of that. We bought a piece of land on Fifield Point and built a home there. We used it for about three months every year, which we thoroughly [inaudible]. After living in Washington, DC, let me tell you, it is such a remarkable change. Everybody needs that – needs relief from what goes on down here.

 

GK: [0:12:52] Yeah.

 

ER: [0:12:54] This is not living.

 

GK: [0:12:58] What was your day-to-day outside of Haystack when you were in DC?

 

ER: [0:13:08] Well, we partook of everything that was offered. I mean, the art shows, the theater. We went to Blue Hill for the Kneisel Hall Sunday concerts. We just became part of the scenery and did what everybody there did that was interested in art. We took part in all those things, whatever it was – and the opera house. It was our home away from home, and I loved it. Loved every minute of it – the people, the place, the views, the temperature, the weather. The whole thing was perfect for me.

 

GK: [0:13:57] Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. I’m curious, Eleanor, if you have memories of Fran Merritt.

 

ER: [0:14:08] Absolutely. And Priscilla.

 

GK: [0:14:11] Oh, great.

 

ER: [0:14:12] Yes.

 

GK: [0:14:13] What are some of your memories of the two of them?

 

ER: [0:14:19] They were wonderful in every aspect and very encouraging in being exposed to the art. In fact, Fran found a few artists that he picked pieces of for me to buy, which helped me develop an eye. He was marvelous. Priscilla opened her home to me, and I spent many a night sleeping at their place when I would come from another place and get ready to go to Haystack. She would house me, and it was just wonderful. It was fun and relaxing, and I was eager to do it. I loved being there. They were a terrific couple. Marvelous. Couldn’t be nicer.

 

GK: [0:15:16] And was their presence felt when you were at sessions at Haystack in the summertime?

 

ER: [0:15:27] Well, I say. Well, Fran wasn’t there too long after I started. Then. Howard came, and things changed quite a bit at that point.

 

GK: [0:15:52] How did things change? Can you tell me about that?

 

ER: [0:15:56] Well, the personalities of the two directors were so different, and the director has a great influence on the atmosphere at the school. In my view, with Fran, it was a labor of love. He adored that school. He put every minute and ounce of his energy into keeping it such a wonderful place. Howard had a different focus, and it reflected in the atmosphere and amongst the pupils. It was not as positive as Fran’s was. So, leave that.

 

GK: [0:16:44] Yeah. Well, I think it’s an interesting – in these histories and memories, thinking about how the school changed over time is one of the things that we’re thinking about. Thank you for answering that candidly. You said that you went to twenty sessions. So, were you going to sessions when Stu Kestenbaum was the director as well?

 

ER: [0:17:16] Yes. He brought back a lot of what Fran had there. A lot of happiness, eagerness – hard to describe, but Stu and Fran personified people that are happy with their lives. It’s good to be around people that are positive but not negative.

 

GK: [0:17:47] Sounds like it was a joyful feeling.

 

ER: [0:17:50] Exactly, exactly. There was fun involved. There was some humor. There was some lightness. Yet, they were both very astute as to the quality of the art. They knew who was really good. I met a lot of wonderful artists as a result of Haystack.

 

GK: [0:18:15] Were you involved –? You served on the board of trustees, right?

 

ER: [0:18:20] Yes.

 

GK: [0:18:22] Can you just tell me how that came to be, why, and when you were a part of the board?

 

ER: [0:18:30] I don’t remember the when.

 

GK: [0:18:33] The dates are hard. [laughter]

 

ER: [0:18:34] I think the way [inaudible]. [laughter] That’s what it was. They wanted something from the East Coast, someone from the East Coast. That was me, I guess. They were looking to broaden the board to people other than just artists. They needed more diversity as far as occupation was concerned. So, I think that was one of the reasons. Maybe they were sick of me, and they thought maybe they could put me on the board and never hear from me again. [laughter] I don’t know. I don’t know.

 

GK: [0:19:15] How many years were you on the board? Do you remember?

 

ER: [0:19:21] No, I don’t. They would have it.

 

GK: [0:19:24] Yeah. They’ve got all that information. Did it change while you were there? Did you notice a shift?

 

ER: [0:19:32] In what way?

 

GK: [0:19:34] How did the board grow over time? Could be not a relevant question for you. Do you have any favorite memories or stories from that time when you were on the Haystack board?

 

ER: [0:19:53] No. Not really. Not off the top of my head.

 

GK: [0:19:59] What was it like? I mean, was it –? Was it not your favorite part of being involved?

 

ER: [0:20:05] Oh, it was very friendly. Very friendly. Very nice. Nice people. I met people from different parts of the country that I would never have been exposed to. I think all of them had a deep and sincere wish to keep Haystack the way it was. They thought the world of the place, which is what I thought, too. They were trying to get more diversity in students and teachers, and it was a hard thing to do at that point in time.

 

GK: [0:20:46] Do you remember who the director was when you were on the board?

 

ER: [0:20:53] I think, Stu. And that’s it.

 

GK: [0:20:57] Yeah. I can look up those dates. So it was probably in the ’90s.

 

ER: [0:21:02] Yes. I think it might be in the ’80s, too, late ’80s.

 

GK: [0:21:13] Yeah. What did you think that people took away from their time at Haystack?

 

ER: [0:21:24] Well, I know what I took away.

 

GK: [0:21:26] Tell me about yourself.

 

ER: [0:21:31] [inaudible] I took away a sense of peacefulness that I didn’t have at home. There’s such turmoil in Washington. Even if you’re not part of the political scene, it does affect you. We’ve never been part of politics. It’s not our choice. So, having an art interest was a lifesaver. It gave us things to do, places to go, people to meet. And all of that was enlightening, fun, and educational. We met really interesting people, which motivates you. They were not in it for what’s good for them. It was their art or their profession. They thrived, and you could see that they’re a different breed of people. Thank goodness.

 

GK: [0:22:37] Yeah, it sounds like it was very inspiring.

 

ER: [0:22:41] It was. And it was illuminating. There is another world besides what goes on here. There is a much better world in a sense and a much happier, peaceful place to be. We all need that. We need some respite from the turmoil that we’ve created. The people of Deer Isle are very lucky to have it.

 

GK: [0:23:11] Yeah. It’s a beautiful place.

 

ER: [0:23:15] That’s right.

 

GK: [0:23:17] You had told me about the session you took with Warren Seelig. I’m wondering if you remember any other teachers of workshops that you were in or artists that you worked with in sessions.

 

ER: [0:23:34] Barbara Shawcroft. Duncan and – I’ve forgotten her name. A man and woman that did (crochet and dye?). Let me think. There were so many.

 

GK: [0:24:00] Did you have any favorites?

 

ER: [0:24:07] Yes. Kiyomi Iwata. I’m trying to think. Michael James. He’s a quilt maker. I finally ended up being a quilt maker. That’s what I enjoyed the most. I tried many, many different textile forms, but that was the one that stuck with me, and I afterward made many quilts. Still use them. Nothing like a good quilt on your bed. [laughter]

 

GK: [0:24:44] So you did do some art-making outside of Haystack itself.

 

ER: [0:24:49] Oh, yes.

 

GK: [0:24:50] Great.

 

ER: [0:24:51] I did indeed, and I loved every minute of it. Yes, it hurt me when I had to give up my stash of fabrics. But it gets to a point you can’t do anymore, so you give it to someone else to enjoy.

 

GK: [0:25:09] I’m so curious about your collecting, too, and where that led you and your husband. I imagine it inspired some traveling to buy things.

 

ER: [0:25:25] Oh, yeah. We joined the [American] Craft Council in New York, and they offered trips, and we took a lot of those trips with them. We were exposed to artists that we never would have seen in Washington. They took you all over, to Omaha, Nebraska, to Los Angeles, to many, many cities around the country. We met other collectors, and we honed our sharp eye. We knew more and more and knew how to focus on what we wanted to buy. I have an apartment filled with all sorts of craft art here. In fact, I had an appraiser here the other day with someone from Philadelphia who is thinking of possibly auctioning off a great number of these things. The Smithsonian’s interested in many of the things. So, it will live on in some instance, where others will get to see these things that are so novel and interesting and beautiful.

 

GK: [0:26:39] Wow. That must feel comforting to know that people are interested and that they’ll have a legacy.

 

ER: [0:26:51] But it’s painful. You spend a lifetime doing it. It’s painful to part with it. But that’s the way life is. So, do the best we can. But there will be a legacy. Definitely.

 

GK: [0:27:11] What do you think –? I mean, what is your connection to objects? It seems that you’re drawn to them, obviously, you and your husband, and to the making of them. I’m just curious what they mean for you or what the significance is.

 

ER: [0:27:36] Well, they gave us joy. Having them at home to live with them, your eye falls on something wonderful all the time. We have some antique furniture, but it goes beautifully with the craft art. We have some Judy McKie pieces that go beautifully with the antique pieces. The crossover is very interesting. The fact that it’s not all one way, I think, is something I like. It’s eclectic. I like the variety of things, the mixture of tastes. I think it works well to live with. It’s easy to live with, especially when you see things that you really love, and they comfort you every day when you walk by them. So, I hope that clarifies that.

 

GK: [0:28:43] Oh, yeah, I think definitely. In terms of collecting – I think you said this at the start of our conversation, but I’m curious to hear more about it. Are there certain materials or certain kinds of craft that you’re drawn to collecting?

 

ER: [0:29:08] No. Almost everything.

 

GK: [0:29:11] That’s wonderful.

 

ER: [0:29:13] Almost everywhere I look around here, I have beautiful wood pieces, I have glass, I have clay, I have marble. I have all the pieces. I mean, some of everything.

 

GK: [0:29:30] That is wonderful. You and your husband established a scholarship fund, right?

 

ER: [0:29:39] Yes.

 

GK: [0:29:40] Can you tell me what inspired you to do that?

 

ER: [0:29:44] Well, we wanted others that maybe couldn’t afford to take the time and use their money for schooling to have the privilege of learning at such a place and stuff. That’s a privilege, and it should be available to young people, some of whom work and need their salary and don’t have extra money. So, we thought the best thing we could do is give money towards an education. My husband was an educator, and he did believe in that. I believe in it, too. The more you know, the better off you are. So, if we could help someone attain a visit to Haystack, that would change their life for the better, or in some way, that was some way to put the money.

 

GK: [0:30:37] So, some of that was for international students.

 

ER: [0:30:43] There were two –

 

GK: [0:30:44] Is that correct?

 

ER: [0:30:46] One was for international travel to bring over students from Iceland and wherever. The other was educational in the States, as I recall.

 

GK: [0:31:03] That’s wonderful.

 

ER: [0:31:06] [inaudible] has a lot of scholarships at this point?

 

GK: [0:31:13] Yeah. And things have shifted. There’s still work-study, but they’re not required to work as much, which is great. So they actually can focus on making their work instead of working in the kitchen.

 

ER: [0:31:38] I see.

 

GK: [0:31:39] And still get funded to go, which is wonderful.

 

ER: [0:31:43] Great.

 

GK: [0:31:46] I had a question that I wanted to ask you. I think you would be a wonderful person to speak on Haystack’s position within American craft in general.

 

ER: [0:32:12] Well, I think it’s a very important piece of the craft experience. I think being exposed to other artists – in other words, an artist works in a studio, whether it’s painting or clay or whatever. They don’t really know what goes on in another artist’s life. Being at Haystack, they have exposure to that. They see the interweavings and the things that are similar or different. They take away from it. I think they have a better understanding of where they are in the art world. I think, as far as the art world is concerned, most of the artists that have really succeeded have spent some time at Haystack. I would think that. I don’t know it to be a fact, but I would assume that to be a fact. I think that it’s so special that you have to experience it. You can’t just hear about it. You have to be there.

 

GK: [0:33:30] Yeah. And it sounds like – I mean, this is true today, too, but it’s this cross-section of you can have someone in a class who is a beginner and someone in a class who is, like you said, maybe the top of their field.

 

ER: [0:33:52] That’s right.

 

GK: [0:33:53] And you’re in the same situation.

 

ER: [0:33:57] Exactly. The experienced artist tends to help the inexperienced. They’re there when the dilemma occurs or when there’s a puzzle to figure out. They’re there to help them figure it out. It works very well. It’s not like you’re going to school, and everybody is thirteen years old, and they’re all coming from the twelfth grade, whatever. It’s a rare atmosphere, and I think it’s very enriching for everybody in the class. As I recall, the classes were around twenty. Is that about right?

 

GK: [0:34:38] Yeah. Sometimes, a little less.

 

ER: [0:34:42] Yeah, depending on the class. Yes.

 

GK: [0:34:47] What would you say the culture is at Haystack? I don’t know if that question – you’ve mentioned this a little bit, what it felt like. But when you’re in a session, are you spending a lot of time getting to know other people, or is it solitary? I mean, what is the [inaudible] like for you?

 

ER: [0:35:24] No, that’s [inaudible]. That’s the good part of it. Most artists work in a solitary environment alone, without exposure or any time to even intermingle with someone else. Their whole life is their art. This gives you a chance at lunch, at breakfast, at dinner, during the day, whenever to be with other people and talk about everything else – anything and everything. It doesn’t matter where you’re from, what you do. It’s just whether the personalities click. And they do, they do click. The people are so similar without realizing it. So, I see it as a benefit to not be solitary. I assume if someone is a loner and wanted to go off in a corner and do what they want to do, I’m sure they could find a place. But that isn’t [inaudible] Haystack. It’s the co-mingling at odd moments that makes it enriching. It’s really an enriching experience in every sense of the word. Have I raved enough?

 

GK: [0:36:44] [laughter] Yes. That’s so wonderful. I’m wondering if, as you think about your time at Haystack, any other memories or stories have popped into your head that you want to share?

 

ER: [0:37:01] Well, I made some good friends there. There was a couple, Florence and Iggy Samuels, from New York. She was a weaver, and he was a photographer. They were a constant at Haystack. They adored Haystack. I made friends with them. That lasted into their later years. They were older than Sam and I. A lot of people through that. I met Charlie Gailis, who started the Renwick Alliance with Lloyd Herman through Haystack, and that’s how we got to be on that forming committee. I’m trying to think of all the people. There were so many people, and names escape me at this point in time.

 

GK: [0:38:03] Charlie Gailis was a pretty big name at Haystack in terms of support.

 

ER: [0:38:11] He lived here in Washington, worked for the government, and he met me, I guess, through my contact with Haystack. When I contacted Haystack, they, of course, notified him, and he came and visited. We became very good friends. Very good friends. Names escape me. It’s terrible.

 

GK: [0:38:46] That’s okay. It’s hard.

 

ER: [0:38:49] Yeah.

 

GK: [0:38:50] Long life.

 

ER: [0:38:51] You can bring up some names. It is a long life. I’m going to be ninety-four soon.

 

GK: [0:38:56] Oh my gosh. I didn’t realize that. That’s incredible.

 

ER: [0:39:02] Yeah. I’m an old lady at this point.

 

GK: [0:39:07] That is amazing. Ninety-four. When is your birthday?

 

ER: [0:39:12] December 6^th – month.

 

GK: [0:39:16] Wow.

 

ER: [0:39:17] Isn’t that something? Let me tell you, it goes fast. Incredible. You have to have good memories. Otherwise, your old age will be miserable.

 

GK: [0:39:28] You need to have something to remember and think of fondly.

 

ER: [0:39:33] That’s right. It keeps you happy. Absolutely. I offer that advice to anyone that lives. They should keep good memories in their head. The other stuff, forget. It’s not worth keeping. We all have bad times; that goes without saying. But you can push it aside and just think about the positives.

 

GK: [0:40:03] It sounds like, too, you have these objects in your home that are themselves full of good memories.

 

ER: [0:40:15] Right. I have lots of children and grandchildren to enjoy them, too, which makes me happy.

 

GK: [0:40:23] That’s so great.

 

ER: [0:40:26] And some great-grandchildren. [laughter]

 

GK: [0:40:29] Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I guess if you live to ninety-four, you get to have great-grandchildren. That’s amazing.

 

ER: [0:40:37] Are you related to – I can’t think of his first name.

 

GK: [0:40:44] Gene.

 

ER: [0:40:45] Gene Koch.

 

GK: [0:40:46] Yeah, that’s my dad.

 

ER: [0:40:48] Oh, okay. Well, say hello to him.

 

GK: [0:40:51] I will. I know.

 

ER: [0:40:52] We used to see him on campus all the time.

 

GK: [0:40:56] [laughter] He just retired.

 

ER: [0:40:58] Oh my goodness. The boys, who also worked on the campus – can’t think of their name – they bought the store in Deer Isle Village. I don’t know if they still own it.

 

GK: [0:41:15] Jonathan Doolan.

 

ER: [0:41:17] That’s it. He’s still there?

 

GK: [0:41:20] Still there. Not at Haystack. Now he’s retired, so he’s on Deer Isle, though, doing the Deer Isle Village thing.

 

ER: [0:41:29] That’s what I wondered. Yeah. Good. Lucky.

 

GK: [0:41:35] I know. When was the last time you were on Deer Isle?

 

ER: [0:41:42] Been, oh, at least six or seven years, maybe more. I can’t remember.

 

GK: [0:41:49] Wow.

 

ER: [0:41:50] I’m sure it’s changed. The house that we built was right across the road from Richard and Mary (Hale?).

 

GK: [0:42:01] Oh, lovely. Wow.

 

ER: [0:42:07] Somebody named (Burke?) bought it. I don’t know who they are.

 

GK: [0:42:12] I wonder. There is a guy with the last name Burke. I don’t know if it’s the same person.

 

ER: [0:42:20] I don’t know. And then there was a man that bought the (Bove?) house.

 

GK: [0:42:25] Oh, yeah. I don’t know who that is, either.

 

ER: [0:42:30] You’re not missing anything.

 

GK: [0:42:33] [laughter] Gosh. I know. It hasn’t changed too, too much. But it’s the constant battle of worrying, worrying that it will change.

 

ER: [0:42:53] [inaudible] think so. I think [inaudible] pretty much set in stone, hopefully.

 

GK: [0:43:01] I hope so.

 

ER: [0:43:02] You’re lucky to be there. Enjoy it.

 

GK: [0:43:05] Thank you. Thank you for speaking with me. Is there anything else that you want to share about Haystack or your time there?

 

ER: [0:43:16] Mary Nyberg was an important teacher on the island. She had a wonderful gallery. I bought a lot of things from her. The names are beginning to come back a little by little at this point. You know the house?

 

GK: [0:43:36] Yes.

 

ER: [0:43:37] Good.

 

GK: [0:43:43] Eleanor, will you pause for one moment? I just need to grab my computer charger so I don’t lose you.

 

ER: [0:43:48] Go ahead.

 

GK: [0:44:22] Okay. So, Mary Nyberg. Did you spend time at The Blue Heron [Gallery]?

 

ER: [0:44:31] Oh, yes. Always. She always had interesting shows. She was quite a woman.

 

GK: [0:44:43] I knew her when I was very young.

 

ER: [0:44:46] She’s a real personality. She knew her business, and she knew the artists. I bought a lot of things from her, but one, particularly, [Toshiko] Takaezu, I remember buying from her. Lots of others. [laughter] Lots. Have we covered the spectrum?

 

GK: [0:45:17] [laughter] Yes. That’s amazing. It’s amazing to think of – we take it for granted sometimes in that community in Deer Isle to think of just how influential some of the artists and craftspeople are who are represented in these galleries or who come to Haystack.

 

ER: [0:45:46] You’re right. I have a beautiful piece by a clay artist from the Midwest – from Chicago. His name was right in my head – that I bought from her, and the Smithsonian wants it. I want to say Albert – let me think of it.

 

GK: [0:46:25] I’m not sure. I’m looking. Albert.

 

ER: [0:46:40] He taught at Haystack. He did one series of big, like this size, pieces. They’re gorgeous. Can’t think of it.

 

GK: [0:47:01] I don’t know. But it’s really remarkable to think of the people who have passed through there and continue to.

 

ER: [0:47:12] That’s right. Absolutely. Especially the clay people and, of course, Sam Maloof. Sam Maloof, I met through Haystack and through the Renwick. I have several pieces of his. In fact, it’s interesting. He made a beautiful maple cane when my husband became disabled, and everybody loved that cane. It was so beautiful. We’d go to affairs, and people would stop him and ask him where they got the cane. When he got even more of a problem, he needed a sturdier cane. Sam made one in dark to go with dark evening clothes. So, that was a heavier one. So we have – what people have never seen – two canes that you could hang on the wall; they’re so beautiful the way he made them. I met him through the Renwick, I’m pretty sure. He wouldn’t sell to anybody through a gallery. He only sold if he knew you and he liked you. That’s the only way he would sell you something because he was in demand. Big demand at the time. I think he was up at Haystack and taught. I’m not sure of that, but I think he did. He was a wonderful man. Very giving. All these artists were giving. Very few that were not nice. Very few.

 

GK: [0:49:00] Yeah. It’s very striking the way you describe it as such interpersonal relationships. It’s not just collecting. It also sounds like there’s deep friendships.

ER: [0:49:17] Exactly. It’s enriching for the collector to know the artist and to get a sense of the personality of the artists. I mean, they have many facets. They’re not just one thing. They have many facets, and they’re very interesting people, and I enjoyed them. They’re easy to be with, let’s put it that way. There’s not a lot of ego, which you find in Washington. A lot of ego here. [laughter]

 

GK: [0:49:53] I’m sure.

 

ER: [0:49:57] So, anyway, hope this is helpful.

 

GK: [0:49:59] Thank you. Eleanor. I’m wondering if I can have you or Laverne just press stop on the –