HANNAH GOLDMAN: [0:00:00] This is Hannah Aliza Goldman and Joe Gouvin, and we are interviewing Laurie Gildart. It is Friday, March 10, [2023] at 10:38 AM in the New Life Church in Biddeford. Okay. So we’re going to just start from the beginning and then just go chronologically. Okay. I’m just going to scooch a little closer. So, growing up, what were you interested in as a child?

LAURIE GILDART: [0:00:38] Oh, my gosh. The outdoors. Loved the outdoors. I grew up in the country, part of Kennebunkport, but also down – Goose Rocks Beach was only a couple of miles from me. So, a lot of time on the beach as well. But I loved my grandmother. She was a teacher. She had been a teacher. She had stories. I used to love to hear her stories. In hindsight, I wish I would have written them down because I don’t remember them now. But I loved hearing her stories. And then, in eighth grade, there was a project that we were assigned to – one of my friends and I. It was part of music, and we had to go and take pictures and put them to a song. Can’t tell you what the song was. I just remember going out on our bicycles and going around Kennebunkport, taking pictures and putting it almost like to a storyline. I loved it, and I loved photography. So, that’s part of what drew me to Salt – the stories and photography.

HG: [0:01:57] Do you have a favorite story that your grandmother used to tell? Can you tell us?

LG: [0:02:04] No. [laughter] My memories of my grandmother were we played Parcheesi. I went down there and spent the night a lot, and it was just fun. It was her attention was on me. She talked about teaching down at the school in Mt. Agamenticus. It was just right before you get to the entrance, about probably half a mile back; there was a little school there, and she taught there for a year. She taught up around Sebago. I have a turtle pencil holder that she gave me that one of her students had given her. She taught me some crafts. We made a necklace out of leaves, but she always encouraged me as far as art. She had a box that was mine alone, that when I went down, I never knew what would be in the box. It could be a front of a card that someone had sent her, and she’d tear off the words from the back. It could be a doily. Back then, they had paper doilies that they would end up with, or it could be something she saw on a cereal box that she thought was cool and would cut it out. But I never knew what was going to be in my box. But just fond memories.

HG: [0:03:35] Is this your paternal or maternal grandmother?

LG: [0:03:37] Maternal.

HG: [0:03:39] Okay, so you did the eighth-grade project. Was eighth grade in high school or middle school for you?

LG: [0:03:47] Middle school.

HG: [0:03:48] So, when did you find out about Salt?

LG: [0:03:52] All I remember is that there was an announcement that if you were interested in being part of this to go to the library. I mean, the place was filled. If I remember, there was something – I don’t know – recently they talked about, but there were going to be ninety students selected to be part of it. So, I was one of the ninety that got selected and was excited.

HG: [0:04:21] What grade were you in?

LG: [0:04:22] Freshman.

HG: [0:04:23] Had the program been going on before? Was it brand new?

LG: [0:04:27] It was brand new. My sophomore year, it would be brand new.

HG: [0:04:31] Wow. What were the first few classes like? Do you remember anything about it?

LG: [0:04:39] I do not remember. [laughter] There were decisions to be made as far as what story you were going to do. Pamela Wood had ideas of what stories. Then, we were brainstorming. That’s how the old remedy story came about – having talked to my grandmother regarding the old remedies. I did not know Ben Wakefield, the one with the “Storm at Sea.” But somebody else did. A lot of times, you got paired up with someone to go on a story. Everybody was talking about who to get the stories from. Then you were running it by Pamela, whether or not it was a story that she felt would work. But it was also – it was high school. It was not always productive [laughter] because you were chatting with your friends, sitting around the table and chatting. But we worked hard. Like I was saying earlier to you, it was a whole different – it was exciting because – like, with the Pentax cameras, all I had was – I can’t remember what film, but there was the darkroom and being able to develop your own pictures. I had done that in eighth grade. That was one of our art projects in eighth grade. So I had done darkroom before. But it was learning to interview, going out, and talking to people. I think one of the things that with the adults is – like with my grandmother, she never wanted to have the interviews. Some of the old remedies were from her, but she did not want to be interviewed. And it was sort of the attitude: why would they want to know my story? Why? What would they want to know? As I’ve learned over the years more about my grandparents, it’s like, oh, my gosh, they would have loved to know your story. But that was always the – I think even today when you go after a story, sometimes people are really good about giving you their story, and others are – it doesn’t really matter who’s going to read it and that type of thing.

HG: [0:07:35] I have so many questions. First of all, was there any high school drama that happened in the Salt classroom? While you’re trying to get stories, so-and-so has a crush on – ? What was the high school stuff happening during that time? Do you remember?

LG: [0:07:49] Oh, yes. [laughter] I want to be careful here.

HG: [0:07:59] You can use pseudonyms.

LG: [0:08:01] [laughter] There were crushes. You might sit with that person and talk to them and things like that. There was definitely what goes on in normal high school happening in Salt as well. I just had a great respect for Mrs. Wood because what she took on was something totally different. I went back – gosh, what was it? – 2012. I started teaching for my first time ever. Being in a classroom is so different than what is – I don’t know – seen in the college scene. It was a typical classroom. But there was a lot of work going on because when I think about – I mean, I was in typing. You made a mistake – back then, there wasn’t the – these Selectrics – IBM’s Selectric had just come out with – you could backspace and get rid of your error. But not all the typewriters had that. I don’t even know whether – we had a few in Kennebunk, but some of them were the manual machines we were using, so that’s what we were working on. It wasn’t like you could just sit there and type or keyboard, listening to what you were transcribing, and quickly put it down. It took a lot of time. I think a lot of it we also did by hand, if I remember right, just writing it out and then getting it typed out. Oh, gosh. I’m not sure how many years ago now. It would have been probably in 2008 – seven or eight – that I went into the Institute because I was curious if there were stories there that I hadn’t finished. There was one in particular when we went to Presque Isle, the Salt group, there was a lady there. I pulled out the information. It was Horace Allison and Dana Allison. They had an ass farm. They did not want you to call them donkeys. And donkeys are my favorite animal. [laughter] So, we got to go out to this farm, and it was amazing. Their house was two domes put together by a hallway. But what the story was – they were both doctors. I want to say she was a doctor as well. I’m pretty sure. But anyhow, they were newly married. They had twins, and they moved to Presque Isle from Massachusetts to continue with their family but also to have a practice. Well, they went to this parade, and he fell in love with this donkey and insisted on having it. They didn’t have the money, so the guy ended up bringing it to their house the next day. I think it said here that they wanted a hundred dollars for it. Well, they didn’t have a hundred dollars. So, they were dickering back and forth. And finally, the two twins, children of the Allisons, I think, were three at the time, came out with these baby skunks that they had taken the scent out of. The guy ended up taking the two baby skunks for the donkey. I always wanted to write that story. I actually found where she put it out on the Internet. But I contacted her, and she was kind of like, “Oh, it’s no big deal.” But who would think –? I thought it was a good story. So, those are the things that – that story didn’t make it into publication. I don’t know where I was headed with that. Sorry. But there were stories like that that you’d proposed because it was something you were passionate about, but not everybody would be passionate about it.

HG: [0:12:50] Okay, so many follow-up questions. So the three-year-olds –? Were the skunks alive?

LG: [0:12:59] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Someone was – I want to say – building a barn or something, so they ended up with these little skunks. The lady didn’t want them and gave them to Dr. Allison. He de-scented them, even though he was a pediatric doctor. So, they were having them and playing with them, and the kids brought them out.

HG: [0:13:30] Got it. I thought that the three-year-olds had de-[scented] the skunks. I was like, “These Maine kids. They really know …”. Wow. So, how did you hear about that story?

LG: [0:13:41] So, when we were in Presque Isle – we went up to Presque Isle. I believe that a lot of the things had been set up prior to the group going up. I can’t even remember how many of us went because there was barrel making. That story was done with the potato barrels. The baskets that I was part of – that interview. And then someone said, “You got to go out and meet these people.” So we did, and we got to ride the donkey. [laughter] It was right up my alley because, like I said, I always loved them. That’s how we ended up getting out there.

HG: [0:14:29] So, why wasn’t it published?

LG: [0:14:31] I don’t know whether I finished it or not. That was part of it. There’s people in Salt that were very – almost more involved. I didn’t have a lot of access to go to things after school because I lived seven miles from the high school. It doesn’t sound like much, but back then, it was as far as having your parent, if they were working, get you back and forth. Like Herb Baum, I’m sure that you’ve – I don’t know if you’ve talked to him yet – a huge resource for Salt. He’ll have a lot more information. Ann Pierter. Jay York. There’s some that you will see that were a lot more involved with the boat building and different pieces of that because that’s where they were rooted. Herb Baum – there was Baum’s Boatyard, you know, So there’s some that were a lot more connected than others. I looked back, and it was like, gosh, I had, I think, four or five stories published, and I was in it for two and a half years. So, I felt like I had gotten somewhere with it. But some of the stories. I think – I was in it from – I want to say it was my sophomore year and my junior year. And then I didn’t sign up for it my senior year. Then, I ended up going back half a semester for it. The only downside for me – I don’t know whether it was between my K through eight training – but English was not a strong suit as far as writing and knowing all the proper ways of putting your story out there. So, that hurt me when I went to Husson because I ended up taking one of those classes where you don’t pass their entrance exams, so you have to do a semester of English, like the basics. That was the only downside that I felt with Salt is that it was almost – I felt like it should have been an elective because we did not get the training on writing, the whole process of it. Pamela Wood would change it to make it where it needed to be. Not a lot. I don’t think a lot. But a lot of the stories, too, were just transcribed. There wasn’t a lot put in on our behalf, talking about the scene and stuff like that. We didn’t focus there. And that, I felt, should have been a focus. Whereas with you, you’ve been through high school, you’ve had all the English [classes] and everything. Then you’ve also been through four years of college, and now this. So, you’ve gotten the background that you needed.

HG: [0:18:11] So, when you went to Presque Isle, the people there presented you with different stories, including the Mi’kmaq Basket weaving.

LG: [0:18:20] Yes.

HG: [0:18:21] And had you ever met with indigenous people before?

LG: [0:18:26] I don’t think so. No. No.

HG: [0:18:33] Were you excited? Did you learn a lot? What was that experience like?

LG: [0:18:37] Oh, I mean, it was definitely exciting. But then it’s like that teenage piece of me. It’s like when I was looking through the basket making, it was like, yes, it was fascinating. But my memory for that was that the lady brought out some earrings that she had made from porcupine quills. That fascinated me. So my memory of being there was the porcupine earrings because having grown up near the woods and seen dogs with quills and everything, never thinking of someone putting them into earrings, and they were gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous.

HG: [0:19:20] Wow. And what was your impression of Mrs. Wood?

LG: [0:19:30] What do I want to say? I admired her, I think partly because she was doing something that I dreamt of. She was getting us out there, doing the stories. I know I would have never had that experience in high school if it wouldn’t have been for her. It has carried on throughout my life. I don’t know whether you want me to go here now or not, but since 2005, when I moved back here, I pursued writing. So, I wrote for Mainely Media. It’s a local newspaper. The Post here in Kennebunk, Kennebunkport. I did a story with a man named Jack Shangraw. He was on the USS New Orleans, and it was the only ship in naval history that hit itself and was torpedoed in half. The front end came around and hit the backside. The captain thought quick enough. They were close to a piece of land, and the captain thought quick enough to gun the ship and get it up onto land. And then they took the guns and moved them back onto the back of the ship to lift it up and backed it to Australia to get it repaired and to get a hull put on it so that they could get back to the States. So, I did his story, and it was published in the Post. He was so proud of that story and contacted the people that also had been on the ship with him. He gave me a mug, a coffee cup from one of the reunions he had gone to. So, then I wrote a couple of other things for the Post on the Trolley Car Museum and the Ogunquit Playhouse. Then, for three years, they had me do the Arundel Barn Playhouse – the reviews for that. So, I did that. And then, about two years ago, I wanted to get back, continue my writing – maybe three, maybe four. [laughter] So, I’ve done a couple stories since then. I have a blog. The title of it is “Kport Connections,” and the “Why I Write” goes back to Salt, and I’ve mentioned Salt in there. With Ben Wakefield, the story about him, no one maybe today would know about that story if it wouldn’t have been published and someone finds a Salt magazine and reads about it. So, I still work on stories. The pandemic kind of made it very difficult because, of course, people didn’t want to get together. But still, I’m in the process of doing some more stories right now.

HG: [0:23:03] That’s amazing. I’m sure Joe will ask you more questions about that. So, what was the gender ratio like at Salt? Was it more girls? More boys? Even?

LG [0:23:17] Even in the picture that I looked at, it was more girls.

HG: [0:23:20] How did people treat you as a young female reporter?

LG: [0:23:26] It was fine. I think it was because we were interested in what they had to say. Especially with the elders, if you’re respecting them and wanting to hear their story, then sometimes it’s hard to get them to talk just because, one, they might not think that it’s valuable what they have to say. But once you get them talking, they’re all about it. There was a gentleman that I just did a story on a couple of years ago, Ernie Lush, talking about what he did in retirement. He had a bicycle shop, and he did paintings of lighthouses. But what I found also with the one that I did on Jack Shangraw is once you get the story, which I don’t think that we did when we were in Salt, is verify it because you’re dealing with – some of the people have dementia and what they tell you is what they’ve got in their mind. But it might not be completely accurate, especially with dates and things like that. So, I found with the stories, I have to do the research and go back. But I love that. There was a teacher at Kennebunk High School, Tom Murphy, and he taught – I took “Westward Ho” with him, and he taught it as a story. He would make it funny at times. You knew it. When I taught, that was how I would do the history as well. That’s why I love history, digging back and learning.

HG: [0:25:40] Were you in the room when there were meetings about deciding what the name of it would be? What were some of the other names? How did you decide on Salt?

LG: [0:25:48] I do not remember the other names. I do remember – we liked Salt. Growing up near the ocean, it’s the salty piece. It’s the fishermen. It’s the Mainer. So, yeah. Salt was it.

HG: [0:26:16] Do you remember who suggested it?

LG: [0:26:19] No idea. [laughter]

HG: [0:26:19] Did you vote on it?

LG: [0:26:22] I believe we voted on it, but I don’t remember. I’m pretty sure we did. But I’m not positive.

HG: [0:26:30] Were you there when Eliot Wigginton from Foxfire came?

LG: [0:26:37] I don’t know. I know that I was in the room at the library when Foxfire came. But I don’t know who – I don’t remember who was there for them putting it out there what Foxfire was. So, whoever was in that room at the library, I was there. [laughter]

HG: [0:27:02] Was that Foxfire meeting before Salt or during Salt?

LG: [0:27:07] That was the introduction to what we were going to be. As far as if you were interested in this class, Foxfire was there telling what they did.

HG: [0:27:20] Got it. Okay. So, I’m curious about your story on herbal remedies. I really loved it. So, can you tell me the process for it? How did you come up with the idea? How did you pitch it? What did you learn? What were the reactions? A lot of questions I’m throwing at you. But just tell me about the process.

LG: [0:27:43] Okay. I want to say it was my grandmother at first, hearing her talk about remedies and then talking to my dad. He also remembered old remedies. I’m not sure how Eleanor Wormwood became part of it, but I was best friends with one of her grandchildren. So, I’m not sure whether that’s how she came into it because I knew her very well. You see the story of Eleanor Wormwood, but then you see the ones that are listed, and a lot of those were from my grandmother, my dad, and probably my mom as well.

HG: [0:28:40] Did you grow up with any of the remedies?

LG: [0:28:44] No. [laughter] Some of those were pretty far-fetched. There was one, though, with the teas that I remember people talking about, but we never did. By the time I came along, it was more what the doctor said, and went along with that. I tend now to go back. I take elderberry syrup, which isn’t mentioned in there. I was surprised when I read it back through. But some of the teas and things like that that I’m more in tune with now.

HG: [0:29:21] What were the reactions [of] your family when they saw the piece published?

LG: [0:29:30] Mom bought all the books. I still have them right here. She actually subscribed to the magazine even after I was out of high school because a lot of them were also – what do I want to say? She grew up in Kennebunkport, and so these were people that she knew and would read their story, or people that she knew of and would read this story. So, she was fascinated by it.

HG: [0:30:05] Did your dad like seeing his herbal remedies in print?

LG: [0:30:09] I don’t remember. He’s still a storyteller. He’s ninety-six.

HG: [0:30:15] Yeah. Wow. So, what was the relationship of the Salt program to the rest of the school? Was the administration supportive of it?

LG: [0:30:26] They must have been in order for us to have it in the school. I know later there were things that took place. I was gone by that point. I had graduated. But for them to put a darkroom in the classroom, and to let us go out during the school day for interviews and things like that, and after school. There was a lot more leniency back then than there is today, too. It’s different.

HG: [0:31:05] Do you remember the mission of Salt when you first started and how that was come up with?

LG: [0:31:14] I think it was more based on Foxfire – keeping the stories alive and to not lose the history of what these people went through. You always think back – hindsight – I wish in high school I would have been more dedicated to it, but you’re not. I was to the extent – as far as with my grandmother and things like that. But you have other things going on in your life.

HG: [0:31:50] So, I guess this is my last question, then I’ll hand it over to Joe. But looking back now, what do you think the significance of Salt was? I mean, you can talk about, personally or just broadly, what was the meaning and the importance of it.

LG: [0:32:10] Oh, my gosh. I mean, for me, it was almost validating a dream. If I would have thought that I could have made money doing it back then, I would have and kept with it. It’s always been there on the back burner, but there’s also life when you have to make a living and help support your family. But it’s always been, to me, about the stories. And I continue now with the history and the digging. Some of my stories I’ve written because of genealogy, going and doing genealogy. But I just feel like if we don’t continue this, there’s so much lost. The history is amazing. One of the things that I’m teaching my granddaughter about, and I’ve talked to a lot of people about cattle pounds. You don’t know what a cattle pound is. Okay. So, there’s a few here in York County. But back before fences and barbed wire, there was a regulation for towns to have cattle pounds. And what that was – let’s say you have a cattle pound in your yard where you’re the town pound keeper. So, someone has a cow, a goat, whatever that gets loose. The keeper’s responsibility was to go and get the animal. If it wandered into somebody’s garden, then they took it to the pound. The only way that the person could get it back was if they paid the poundkeeper’s fee, any expenses that had been incurred, such as feeding and the damages to the other person’s property. So, there’s some of these stone pounds still in existence in the state. I’m teaching her about cattle pounds. There’s so many people that have no clue what these are. The only wooden one I found is up in Charlotte, Maine. There’s one up there.

HG: [0:34:39] Why is it important for you to tell the story of the cattle pounds?

LG: [0:34:45] Partly also because of the stonewalls. It’s so easy for people to go and take the stones off a stone wall, and it’s a boundary. There’s so much history with that stone wall. It’s also, a lot of times, illegal. But with the pounds, they’re disappearing. It’s part of our history. It’s sad to see the rocks taken from them because they’re part of our history. My granddaughter just loves – she’s only six, but she loves learning and going and seeing these and walking inside them.

HG: [0:35:30] Cool. Well, I think I’ll pass it over to Joe. [RECORDING PAUSED] We’re recording.

JOE GOUVIN: [0:35:35] Okay. This is the second part of the interview with Laurie Gildart. Now Joe is doing the interview. Okay. So, before, we were talking about how, after Salt, you continued your writing and how important Pamela Wood was to motivating you to do that. I feel like I’ve heard a lot about Pamela, but I’ve obviously never met her. So, I was wondering if you could just describe her a little bit. What was it like to meet her? What was she like?

LG: [0:36:12] Oh, my gosh. I don’t want to say hippie, [laughter] but just – oh, gosh, alive and a different type of teacher than I had encountered. I don’t want to say – a free spirit type. She knew what she wanted, and she knew what the expectations were for her students. But she wasn’t the type that was at the chalkboard. You fed off from her energy that she put out. It was exciting. It was something that I never envisioned that I would do in high school. It just brought out the creativity in me. You wanted to do well. So, a whole different teaching style than what you typically encountered with your other instructors. So, I’m so thankful that she did this because I don’t know whether I would have ever pursued writing.

JG: [0:37:46] What kind of stuff would she talk about in class?

LG [0:37:50] Our deadlines. [laughter] It was always about the deadlines. Where we were at. Maybe I’m just not remembering. It wasn’t lectures. It was her going around and checking in with each person and seeing where they were at and what they were working on. It was almost like a – oh, gosh, what would you call it? It wasn’t the typical teaching format. It was more checking in, seeing if you needed help, how the interview was coming together, if you needed something, if you needed a photographer. It was the orchestrating of what was happening and putting all of the pieces together to make the book, bringing all the players together like a team. Yeah. I’m very thankful for her.

JG: [0:39:12] You mentioned earlier that she had a vision for how the magazine and the book would look. What was that vision like?

LG: [0:39:25] I think just taking the characteristics of the stories that we had put together. I think each book kind of had its own layout/format as far as what the cover was going to be, what stories were going to go into that particular issue, and whether they were ready. Like I said, we had a time frame as well that we had to come up with. It would be interesting to know how many stories were not ever put in the books because I’m sure there were quite a few of them. I know that there was stuff destroyed at one point, a lot of the records and things like that because that’s when I had gone into Portland, and they said that a lot was gone. When you’re working on a project, you have an idea of what the outcome is going to be. I think that that’s the vision that Pamela had was knowing what she wanted. But I’m sure she relied heavily on what Foxfire had done because they had it figured out. So, I’m sure that some of what she brought to us was the same thing that Foxfire was experiencing at the time as well.

JG: [0:41:10] Were you reading Foxfire at the time?

LG: [0:41:12] Never. [laughter] No, I’ve seen the books, but as far as – maybe one story. But that was – no.

JG: [0:41:24] I’ve just been personally wondering about this. How did Salt fit into, practically speaking, your high school schedule?

LG: [0:41:31] It was a class. Third period, you went to Salt. I want to say our classes were like three-quarters of an hour, forty-five minutes. Maybe an hour. I think that’s why – I think we had seven periods a day. But then there were times after school that you would go in and do layout and different things. I think that’s where you’re going to get some of the others that were more involved in it. At the time, for me, it meant a lot, but it also was a class. It was like I had my accounting homework, I needed to get home and do. It was just a class. It was an exciting class, but just a class. It filled what I needed to graduate. [laughter]

JG: [0:42:40] What was it like to be going from more lecture-based or traditional class structure to something as new as Salt? Was it difficult or unusual to make that transition?

LG: [0:42:56] I don’t think it was unusual. I think, at times, we could have probably used a little bit of a heavy hand to bring us back to focus because there were definitely times that I was not productive. But it’s the same as far as in other classrooms. If the teacher’s doing something else, and you’re doodling or you’re talking to your friend – same type of thing. It wasn’t like we were all just being disobedient or anything like that, but it was more of a laid back setting. But there was also that pressure of knowing the timelines that we had and getting it done. I mean, typical classroom as far as what went on as far as the teenagers interacting and things like that, but a different atmosphere as far as it not being a lecture. You were responsible for getting your work done. In some ways, that was, I think, important, especially if you were headed off to college because, in college, you are responsible for getting your work done. It’s so different going from high school to college as far as what your responsibilities are. So, I have fond memories. I guess the only thing different I would have done was stuck it out for the three years instead of taking a semester off. I felt like I needed that backbone as far as writing, the writing piece itself. But if I would have stuck it out, I think the ones that stuck it out actually ended up also going to Alaska. I didn’t get to go. [laughter] I don’t know whether I would have been selected either. It would be interesting to know how many after their sophomore year continued in it, whether they – because I know I did for two years, and then I think it was a half a semester that I went back to it.

JG: [0:45:26] You mentioned going to Alaska. Was that a Salt trip?

LG: [0:45:28] Yes. Yeah. I think Herb went on that and – I’m not sure whether – maybe Jay York. There were a few. I’m pretty sure, if I remember right. I don’t think I’m dreaming. [laughter] Because it was like, “Oh my gosh, I could have gone.” Twice, I’ve missed out on Alaska.

JG: [0:45:52] Did you have any friends who joined Salt with you?

LG: [0:45:57] No. I mean, we were friends as far as same grade and everything. Because a lot of the ones that were in the business wing, some of them went up, but not all. Yeah. No, Sorry. [laughter]

JG: [0:46:21] It’s okay. You mentioned that you had tracks in high school. You were on different tracks. What kind of tracks were the kids who were Salt from? Other business track kids? Where would they have fit?

LG: [0:46:36] No, they would have been college-bound. Maybe a few business [students]. I’m not sure whether the vocational students went up to it or not. Maybe a few. But I think it was more college-bound and maybe a few of the business [students]. But you were definitely tracked. I even took small engines. My mother wouldn’t let me take welding. [laughter] Well, it was to get out of study hall. I didn’t want to be in study hall. So, you took something else that was fun and something different to do. In some ways, it would have been nice to have something – I don’t know how it would have worked if you would have had another opportunity for Salt, if there would have been another class instead of study hall, that you could have gone and done something with it.

HG: [0:47:42] Should we talk about life after Salt? JG: [0:47:44] Yeah, sure.

HG: [0:47:50] Don’t want to rush you.

JG: [0:47:54] Did you make any friends in Salt?

LG: [0:47:58] Not people that – I mean, I already knew them. It was a small high school. It was people that I already knew mostly. Maybe got to know them a little bit better. [laughter] Gosh. I think you got to know the students better. But as far as new friends, I already had my friends that I was hanging out with. There was a youth group that I was part of at church. Actually, Herb was part of that. There were others that I knew through that as well. The hard piece is [that] it was a class. I went to accounting. I went to typing. I went to shorthand. Salt was just one of the rotations that you went to. But for me, it meant more than just being – but not enough so that I became even more involved with it. It was just – because the other classes took a lot of my time, especially accounting. I don’t know if you’ve ever taken accounting. But back then, they would give you a packet, and it was all done by hand – tracking the numbers. So, you had a whole table like this filled with spreadsheets and everything, doing it by hand and adding it up by a little tiny calculator because back then, you didn’t have Excel to put it out on. So, that could take me a couple of hours at night to work through my accounting homework. Shorthand kind of took a back burner. [laughter] Being a small high school, you knew the students. I mean, we had, I think, seven hundred. Still, that’s a lot of people. But the ones that were in Salt, a lot of them I knew. I was looking through the pictures, and it’s like, I know a lot of them, some not as well as others.

JG: [0:50:38] Did you go to Husson College right after high school?

LG: [0:50:42] Yes. My mom’s belief was that you had three choices: you could become a teacher, you could become a nurse, or a secretary. So, I ended up becoming a medical secretary. I used it for a very short time. I went for a two-year degree, which now they consider them medical assistants, the one that takes your blood pressure and all of that when you go to the doctor. That’s what we were taught. But it was more on transcription, transcribing the doctor’s notes. So, I worked for a year after Husson at James Taylor Hospital, which is no longer there. Then got into bookkeeping. Then, in ’94, was my desire to become a teacher. But living so far away from the campus didn’t make it easy. So, I floundered again. I started out going for – what was it? – education, then special ed. So, I went out to Farmington during the summer and took classes that were condensed. Then, I decided that it was taking me too long and too far from my family. I ended up getting a behavioral science degree and then eventually took a few extra classes to become a teacher and then got my MBA from Thomas [College]. So, been all over the place. [laughter]

JG: [0:52:28] When did you start writing again after Salt?

LG: [0:52:35] It wasn’t until – I want to say – 2006 or ’07. I was in between jobs and approached Mainely Media to see if I could write for them with no experience other than Salt and some grant writing and things like that, which is totally different. So, they gave me – the first story that I did was – let me think. They sent me down to the Ogunquit Playhouse. I’ll never forget because the lady I was interviewing – it was about what was coming up for that year. She said, “So, what plays have you come to see?” And my face must have shown it all because she says, “You haven’t been.” And I said, “No.” And she said, “Well, I’m going to
fix that,” and she gave me two tickets to see Fiddler on the Roof and the press packet. I got third row back from center stage, and it was awesome. That’s been the funny part with how you go back and forth between are you a writer or aren’t you? When I sit with people – when I talk to people, I hesitate saying I’m a writer because I’ve never been paid for my writing. But it depends on how you look at it with your payment. I mean, I have a coffee cup from a reunion from the USS New Orleans. I have two paintings from Ernie Lush that he did. I have two tickets that I went to see Fiddler on the Roof. I have a press pass that I got when I went to the Trolley Car Museum and got to go in places that the public doesn’t get to go. That’s the part that drives me. Monetary would be wonderful, but it’s the stories, and then it’s finding the source of who to interview. Like I said, I’ve got stories hopefully on the horizon here. I’ve got to get back with my blog. I haven’t written in it, I think, for two years now. In fact, last year, I was going to ditch it, and then it was like, “No, I can’t.” One of my favorite stories that I’ve written in there is about Lizzie Bourne. When my mom and I were talking about Mount Washington, she said a distant relative died on Mount Washington. So, I took the Cog Railway, and it was on a September day, and went up the mountain. I didn’t get a chance to walk down to where she had died. But it’s a fascinating story. I still have questions that someday maybe I’ll get answered regarding it. But that’s what draws me – digging. There’s so much in the newspapers that you can – I mean, MacArthur Library has the old newspapers. So, you’re able to get things that you normally wouldn’t get to see because now – I don’t know – it’s more people’s opinion. Whereas back then, it was – one of my ancestors was riding in Saco, ended up pulling his buggy over to the side of the road and dying right there. But then sometimes I’m looking through the newspapers; I’ll see something where somebody died and fell in a well, and it’s like, I wish I knew who their ancestors, the people were because it would be cool to be able to let them know – did you know that your ancestor fell in a well? That’s how they died. Because so many times, you don’t know what actually happened. So, yeah. I love the history. I love the writing. I love the people. But I do find it’s difficult sometimes when you go and ask somebody to do their story because then there is that – I almost feel like I know what Pamela Wood felt like sometimes as far as somebody – the students we had gone and taken their story. But then the person’s wanting to know when is it going to be in print. And that’s what I feel now: It’s like continually asking questions, and when you’re trying to validate it, the different things that they’ve said can make it take longer for you to get it published on my blog. So, I think that there was a lot of pressure for her that we did not see. We saw it sometimes in maybe her mannerism in the classroom, but I don’t think we knew all of the pressure that she was maybe receiving from the administration for productivity, to see what these students are actually producing. So, I think there was maybe more behind the scenes than we as students knew. Did I get your question? [laughter] I sometimes go around the barn.

JG: [0:58:28] That’s fine. So, when you’re looking through newspapers and stuff like that, what are you looking for for your stories?

LG: [0:58:38] As far as –? It’s going for the facts. It’s looking. But it’s looking for the highlights, too. Back to cattle pounds, [laughter] I’ve been researching the Biddeford cattle pounds, and there was a character that was – we look at the political sometimes, what is happening with what people are saying politically. This character was back around 1890, and he was very political in what he was saying. And it was like, “Oh my gosh.” Sometimes, you don’t think of it as happening back in history, but he was quite a character. So, I look for things that hopefully are going to – I don’t want to say make the story interesting but to pull it out so that – but also, to possibly bring a little humor to it, to not make it so dry because some of history is very dry. So, I look for the nugget that’s going to maybe be an aha moment for that person as well as me.

HG: [1:00:04] I want to know more about this character. What do you mean that he was political and interesting? What was he saying?

LG: [1:00:11] Let me check my notes. Oh, my gosh. Because it was something that was happening down in Boston, and he was writing. I wish I had – it’s been a couple of years now since I’ve looked at the material. There was an incident where he was supposed to go and get an animal, and he made all kinds of excuses of why he couldn’t go and get the animal. I can’t remember whether it was the soles of his shoes. It was just all kinds of things that he was writing and in the papers about him that he wasn’t doing his job. So, I just found him – I don’t know – a rebel, and I like rebels. [laughter] So, it’s just bringing out some of the character that these cattle pound people had been because it wasn’t an easy job because you’ve got one person that’s very angry that these animals have been in their yard destroying maybe their garden and eating everything that’s there to some that are – but then you’ve got the gentleman that’s running it that might be charging more than he actually should be charging and making up things. But it’s also neighbor against neighbor at times. So, just a lot of dynamics took place, and some of them were well-liked, and others were not. But it’s hard, too. It takes a lot of digging to pull the information. I’m still doing a lot of digging on it, but it’s right now on the back burner because I’ve got another one that I’m working on. [laughter]

JG: [1:02:20] What’s your other one if you want to share?

LG: [1:02:22] One of the things I’m working on is Mount Agamenticus, looking at the history. But I also want to talk to my aunt because back around ’65, ’66, when it was a – I don’t want to say ski resort, but a place you could go and ski – they had the chairlift and tea bar – she was there and working there. So, I’m hoping her dementia isn’t too much that I can get her perspective of the mountain at that time. She took me over to a rock pile that’s regarding an old chief. Looking back in the newspapers, it’s like, did he exist or didn’t he? They’re wondering if it’s folklore or if it actually took place. So, I’ve been digging in that, but it takes hours to do the research. But I like it. That’s what keeps me going. But I need to start. I’m realizing that I need to not just do the research, [but] that I need to write daily. I don’t know if you know Julia Cameron. She’s got a new book out, Write for Life or something like that. Excellent resource. It just came out. She talks about morning pages. Whenever I’ve done the morning pages, it’s amazing. I’ve been doing morning pages now for about five weeks. But it doesn’t always happen because my dad wakes up, [laughter] and I have to get his oatmeal. So, that’s my goal right now for retirement. It was interesting, too, with the cattle pounds – I found a little booklet over in New Hampshire that a lady in her seventies had – I think it was her seventies, maybe she was older – that she had written about cattle pounds, and it had been published. Maybe she was older. So, it’s never too late.

JG: [1:04:45] My mom also loves Julia Cameron.

LG: [1:04:48] She’s awesome. If she doesn’t have the next book, it would be a good gift for her.

JG: [1:04:53] Great idea. Thank you. Well, I think those are both great encapsulations of local Maine history and, as you say, really bring out the dynamics of the past that otherwise you wouldn’t have access to. As you say, it’s a lot of work to get that research. What drives you to do this very local and specific kind of history?

LG: [1:05:23] Oh, dear. I think part of it is reconnecting with my grandmother. Just knowing the farm – really, with both sides of my family, the farm was – 1740 is when Joseph Adams came and started the farm on Goose Rocks Road, and my grandmother sold it in 1965 when my grandfather passed away. But it was in the Adams family all of those years. But there’s so much history. But it’s also the people that appreciate you taking the time. One of the other stories that I’ve been playing with is there’s a place near where I live on Whitten Hill Road. It’s called Beacon Corner. I’ve been told that there was a beacon there for World War II. But then, it was taken away after the war. But there’s a lady that used to live right across from that that I want to get her perspective of having this beacon there. There’s a pyramid of rocks that was used during World War II because they couldn’t use the beacon. So, there’s more stories that I still want to grab that I haven’t. I guess it’s my own history as well for the area [where] I’ve grown up and what you learn. So, I grew up on Whitten Hill Road, and right on our property, there was a huge rock. So, we’d go on top of the rock, and it was almost like a drop- off, but we’d get on the flying saucer, and we’d go down this rock into this gully. In the summer, it would be like leaves and moist. But in the winter, it was a place we could slide if we dared. I never realized what that gully was – they had taken the dirt from there to build the road. So, now when I walk up the road, you see all kinds of places that are these mini gravel pits. That’s what it was: building the road up. But you wouldn’t know that. So, now it’s like – when you go out walking, if you’re on a country road, and you see these small gullies, you’re going to maybe wonder, “Was this what they used to build the road?” So, it’s not forgetting what was here. That’s like with my cattle pounds. There’s so much history here, and people drive by them all the time. Up in Orrington, Maine, there’s one right on Route 15, and people have no clue what that stands for, or even out in Acton, they have no idea. I want people to know. [laughter] Even the historical societies, when I brought it up, they have no clue. So, that’s what I do.

JG: [1:09:04] Has all this work –? How has it changed the way you think about or feel about Maine?

LG: [1:09:14] I think it’s more the history. As far as changing, what I feel about Maine, that doesn’t change. [laughter] I love living here. I love the people. For some of it, it gets that explorer, that adventurous piece of me back. Three or four years ago – I quilt. So, I do the quilt shop hop pretty much every year where you go from shop to shop. So, back – I don’t know – it was maybe ’21. I don’t know. I went, and they had the quilt shot hoo. I was up in Greenville, and it was when COVID was going on, and I had to pay for two people, even though it was just me going in the plane. So, I took the seaplane up and went, and there was – then I stayed in Bangor for the night. I thought, “I’ve got this time. What am I going to do?” At the time, I was still researching my cattle pounds. So, I took off the next day and was looking to find certain cattle pounds on my way home. I’ll never forget because I pulled up – it was out toward Farmington, and I was having a hard time because what was in the book listing where the cattle pound was didn’t coincide with the way the roads were. I had gone back and forth on this road and just not finding the way that it was laid out as far as what corner it was supposed to be on. So, I saw this police officer sitting, watching for speeders. So, I pulled up alongside him, and I told him what I was doing. He’s like, “Well, I don’t know about that, but why don’t you go and talk to the lady at the store? If so-and-so’s there, she might have an answer for you or be able to tell you where to go.” So, I stopped at the store, and she wasn’t sure. So, then I drove up a little ways, and there was a guy outside that had just had a delivery of a washing machine or something. I stopped in the yard and was talking to him. When people see your passion, sometimes you get blown off, but other times, they want to share; they want to help you. And there’s things that – that day, it was like I went up on this mountain all by myself. I took this long dirt road out and then got out and walked around and took pictures. I don’t know. It’s just the adventure of it. But it’s also connecting with the people, the old-timers. It’s hard when you go in, sometimes even to the nursing homes and stuff, because the people are kind of pushed aside, and no one has the interest anymore of what they have to say. There’s so many stories there. I’m going to be glad when some of this – COVID – is in the background because these people have the stories. Sometimes, they don’t realize how much they want to share until you start prodding them, and then they start talking. It means a lot to them, and it means a lot to me because I’m getting the story, of course. But for them. With Jack, I never realized until I did that story on him on the ship what it meant to him to be making photocopies of it and sending it to his friends. But like I said, it is hard sometimes because you’re having to validate what they’re telling you, and that can be difficult. But it can also bring up a nugget that they haven’t thought of, too.

HG: [01:13:47] Looking back, do you have a favorite memory or anything that stands out to you about Salt?

LG: [01:13:54] Oh, my goodness. Probably not the one that she’d want me to say, but going – I think Presque Isle was one of my favorites as far as going to the donkey farm [laughter] and hearing the stories, but going and seeing the baskets made right in front of you. Later, I did baskets myself. But learning the culture up there as well, that it’s a different part of Maine. Just like Washington County, a whole different part of Maine. But I think the trip up – having been brought up in Kennebunkport, this was all local; I knew it. But to go and experience another part of Maine was eye-opening, especially after doing the story about Ben Wakefield. Then, I knew the farming community because that’s what my grandfather had done. But this part, going to Presque Isle, was amazing. I would think that would be one of my favorites was going up there and just seeing different people. Different people doing their own survival and making the baskets. I want to say they had been from Nova Scotia and come here to work. You don’t think about – after living on the border in Woodland, it’s going back and forth. You go back and forth, and you think nothing of it. So, for them to come from Nova Scotia to here – they did it.

JG: [01:16:07] Laurie, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you would like to talk about? Anything we missed?

LG: [01:16:12] Gosh, I think we’ve covered a lot. [laughter] The only thing I had noted, too, regarding Salt [was] it just wasn’t the stories. We were learning about interviewing. We were learning to transcribe. We were learning about layout and how to put a magazine together. It wasn’t just gathering the stories. There were all the tools that we – the darkroom – learning all of those tools that you had to know in order to do the story. That was a gift. That was truly a gift to be able to experience that because – I mean, the cameras weren’t cheap, the recorders. Who knows how many of those recorders we went through? Because when you were having to transcribe, you were going back and forth, and sometimes, it wasn’t clear what the person was saying. So, you’d have somebody else come over and say, “Can you listen to this because I can’t quite get it?” Because you’ve got the Maine accents in there as well. And then the history and just learning about people. I think that that’s – I’ve known schoolteachers that have done little pieces of this. I want to say down in York they’ve gone and had their students go and interview a grandmother or something. I just think it’s so important because we’ve lost a lot as far as our history goes. It’s like when you go into – I don’t know where you were at in high school, but when you start world history in high school, you start way back, and most of the time, you don’t even get – you’re lucky if you get past 1800. You never get up into World War I, World War II, the Depression – none of that. In the US history as well, you just don’t get through it all. So, I think it’s so important that kids hear about what was happening fifty years ago.

HG: [1:18:41] Cool.

JG: [1:18:42] Well, thank you so much, Laurie.

HG: [1:18:43] I think we’re good. Thank you.

JG: [1:18:44] This was really excellent.

LG: [1:18:44] You’re welcome.